In King Nestor Remembers, the third book of The Odyssey, Telemachus has set sail with the goddess Athena towards Pylos to question King Nestor about the whereabouts of his father Odysseus. When they hit the shore Nestor is very hospitable and friendly right away to his guests. I was wondering why exactly people were always nice and offered gifts to their visitors at this time, and then I read a quote from King Nestor. “Zeus forbid- and the other deathless gods as well- that you resort to your ship and put my house behind like a rank pauper’s without a stitch of clothing, no piles of rugs, no blankets in his place for host and guests to slumber soft in comfort” (118). Nestor also offers them a chariot and fine horses to transport them to their next location. I realized that they might not just be doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, but in order to please the gods. This entire chapter just seemed to be Telemachus searching for information from Nestor, and receiving his story. Nestor sent him on his way after telling him all he knew and Telemachus’ journey is to continue. In Telemachus’ position, how would you keep yourself motivated to keep moving?
Another thing I realized was dramatic irony a few times. King Nestor referenced Athena a few times, by telling Telemachus that Athena had favored Odysseus, and may favor him as well. He said this without realizing that Athena was indeed there with Telemachus. The other thing that I noticed along these terms was foreshadowing spoken by Nestor. He told Telemachus that if Odysseus did indeed find his way back to Ithaca he would cut down all of his wife’s suitors, which as we discussed in class, does indeed happen. I thought the sophistication on Homer’s use of literary elements was brilliant, and well thought out.
I also checked out the notes on the translation in the back of the book and found some interesting things. One thing was a description of the warriors that Nestor names that fell at Troy. Achilles was shot with an arrow, shot by none other than Paris, in the heel, the only weakness of his armor. Also, when his Ajax’s mother Thetis offered the armor and arms of Achilles to Odysseus for being the bravest champion, Ajax killed himself for not having won. Another interesting tale given was that behind Philoctetes. The Achaeans were unable to take Troy, and learned that they would only be able to with Philoctetes and his bow that he had inherited from Heracles. His safe return from Troy concluded his well-known story. The last interesting note that I looked at was about the tradition of sacrifices to the gods. Apparently the tongues of the sacrificed animals were reserved for the gods, which is gross, why would you want a tongue? But apparently it was a very important offering for the gods. I think Athena was different than the perspective I got from when we talked about the gods in class. My opinion from the reading in class was that generally gods were vicious and Athena seems to be very helpful and willing for mortals. If you were in Telemachus’ position, where you knew Athena was with you, how would you react?
The hospitality of this chapter really throws me off as compared to today’s society. If some stranger came to my house and asked to spend the night and then have a car the next day to continue his journey, I’d punch him in the face. I am also positive I am one of millions, perhaps billions that would do the same thing. I cannot make the connection from this chapter to the real world, honestly how would you react if you were in Nestor’s position in today’s society? Would you invite this man looking for his father into your home?
For question one, I would keep motivitated just like Telemachus. Searching for his father is very important to him, and he made a promise to himself that he would find his father in one year or else he would give his mother away to be wed. He really dislikes those suitors in his house, and searching for his father is the only way to get them out.
ReplyDeleteIf I was in Telemachus' position, where I knew that Athena was at my side, I would act shocked, and then very reassured. I would be amazed that she was with me, and also why me? But then I would realize that if a God was with me, I would surely succeed in my mission of finding my father, and then go forward with a new enthusiasm. If a God was with me I wouldn't fail, and would know that even the Gods wanted me to find him.
For the last question, I would not accept a stranger into my house. There are too many dangerous people out there today. But, if I was living in the societies of Nestor and Odysseus, I would accept them into my home. It was only proper of the time to care for travellers that needed care, and if I knew that a son was searching for his lost father the war hero, I would do what I could to help him.
Question 1: If I was to embark on a mission that had fifty-fifty chance on finding my father alive, I would do everything I can to not let him down. Since Athena is also on my side, I would feel secure in my actions knowing that there is someone who is there to guide me if I were to ever get lost. But although this journey does have many dangers involved, I would keep myself motivated by telling myself that this is the only chance that I will get to be able to save and find my father, and preserve our family's reputation at the palace.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: To go along with my first response, I'd feel very safe and secure with Athena by my side because she even sent a phantom at the end of Book 4 guaranteeing Penelope that I (Telemachus) will indeed return home, with Odysseus or not. But of course, first off I would have felt anxious and skeptical of whether Athena was truly on my side to assist me or to draw me away from looking for my father.
Question 3: In today's society where there are millions of weirdos and predators out on the loose, I would never let a stranger stay at my house unless I knew them in some way. In these times, we honestly cannot trust people that we are not familiar with because they can have secret motives to steal your possessions or harm your family. But, it seems that in the days of Odysseus, hospitality was very common, and it was more of a duty to take in people who needed a place to stay, than a favor to them. So, if I was in Nestor's place during that time, I would definitely let Telemachus into my house because it would be the proper act to do.
For the first question, I would like to think that I would be able to keep myself motivated to keep moving. But it is hard to know in this kind of situation, because in book three, it does not seem like Telemachus is getting any clear answers from King Nestor. While Nestor is telling Telemachus what happened during the Trojan War, he states "Odysseus sailed them back, the flexible, wily king..." (112)Nestor tells Telemachus all of his father's good attributes and this could be a reason for Telemachus to keep going on his journey. When he is reassured of how great a man his father is, he might be motivated to keep going. On the other hand, King Nestor later tells Telemachus that he knows "nothing of their fates, the ones who stayed behind: who escaped with their lives and who went down" (113). After Telemachus heard this, I would not be surprised if he was not motivated to keep going. If i kept hearing two different sides to what has happened my father, I would not know what to believe. But, since Athena went to Telemachus and had him make a promise to himself to keep going, that should be enough motivation to keep one going. Athena has been with him the whole time, and she has not stopped believing in him, so I would also see that as motivation.
ReplyDeleteAlso, to answer the second question, I would feel safe with Athena by my side. Adding to what I said in the previous question, Athena has been there throughout Telemachus' entire journey and has not done anything wrong. Having Athena by my side would make me feel brave and strong enough to keep going. Her motivation and will would make me see that I also need that same motivation to keep going. I would definitely react in a positive way because I would be getting help from a reliable person.
I strongly relate to you in the sense that I also have a very hard time relating to this play. I understand everything that is happening and why it is happening, but it is almost impossible for me to imagine this same thing happening in my own life. That being said, I WISH things like this happened in my own life.
ReplyDeleteIf I was in Telemachus’ position, I would be motivated by the help that everyone had offered (especially Athena and Nestor), and motivated by the fact that there is someone out there who knows what happened to Odysseus. At this point in his journey there is nothing to de-motivate him; only things to spur him further. The idea of every question being possibly answered is a very inspiring thing, in my opinion.
I’m not quite sure how I would react to finding out that Athena was the one who was helping the whole time. I think I would ask her directly for help, knowing that she had a strong relationship with Odysseus. When I was reading, I was trying to imagine what it would be like if my friend was actually God and he was tinkering with my life to make things better. The thought was almost inconceivable, which shows how different the roles of deities are in our society and ancient Greek society. Like I mentioned before, I can relate to you because there are so many things in this play (the role of the gods, the rules of hospitality) that are very hard to relate to.
I wish I could say that I would act as generous and welcoming as Nestor, but I know I wouldn’t when the time actually came to do so. I do, however, wish that things today were more like they were in Odysseus’ time. People were far less concerned about hoarding their own money and were happy to offer anything they had to a stranger. They may have been pressured into doing so because of the presence of the gods, but I think that being pressured into something good isn’t necessarily a bad thing. People above have mentioned that they wouldn’t let someone into their house because there are a lot of crazy people running around, but I think there was the same ratio of crazy to non-crazy people running around back then. I think people use the “Crazy Person” excuse so that they don’t have to share what they believe is theirs with someone who they believe is undeserving.
If I was in Telemachus' position, I would do the same thing he is already doing and that is searching for any clues about his father being dead or alive and where he might possibly be if he is alive. The help and support from others would help give me strength to keep searching for my father. If you want and miss something so much as a loved one, then you keep on going. Motivation is key for when embarking on a long and dangerous journey. I would just keep reminding myself why I am doing this. For Telemachus it is finding his father and getting rid of all the suitors in his home that are trying to get him mother.
ReplyDeleteI would be extremely happy to know that Athena, a Goddess, was on my side. It would give me more reason to suspect my father was alive if a Goddess was helping me and telling how to go about finding him. I would feel safe knowing she was there to help me. It would just make me feel even more encouraged to find Odysseus because I would believe he was still alive since I have a Goddess on my side.
I really like to think I would let him in and help him out. As long as he didn't seen too sketchy and I wasn't alone, I would let him in and try to help him to my best abilities to help him find his father. The whole having to give the guest a gift doesn't bother me so much as I really life getting gifts for people. I'm fine with that part. I just like to think that if I was in that position someone would offer to let me in and help me.
Question 1: If I were in Telemachus' position, I would keep myself moving in my journey by telling myself that what I was doing would help my family. The whole reason he is doing this is because he is trying to find out information on whether or not his father is alive. If he learns that his father is alive, then he can return to Ithaca with the news, which will hopefully drive away the suitors that have been hanging on to his mother like a parasite for the last couple years. Also, if he does learn that Odysseus is in fact dead, he can return home with the news and his mother can move on and marry someone else knowing that her husband will not be showing up again. Another motivating factor is the fact that the gods are on Telemachus' side. Back in ancient Greece, they believed that there were many gods and that they intervened in everyday life to influence people's decisions. So the fact that a god came down to Earth to specifically help one man and his family, I would think that would be a big motivating factor. Especially when it was this god that told him to go on the journey.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: If I was in a position where a god was personally by my side and guiding me along a journey, I would feel a little bit nervous. I would think "no god would ever do something like this for a normal person, so that means I have to do something extraordinary to live up to the image the gods have of me". I would be so concerned with making it worth their while to have their attention focused upon me. But, I would also feel a little more sure of myself because I knew that Athena and Zeus (who sent down the sign of the eagles in book 2) were on my side and looking out for me.
Question 3: I would never accept a stranger into my house in today's society. There are just too many dangerous people in the world who cannot be trusted, especially the people you do not even know. However, the times were different back then and they followed a different set of rules. It would have been considered rude to not offer a wary traveler hospitality back then. Just think in book 1 when Athena (disguised as Mentes) came to see Telemachus for the first time. It only took a few seconds for Telemachus to realize there was a visitor there, but when he did, he immediately rushed over and apologized for being so rude. He then invited the "stranger" to a huge feast.
Even though in today’s society people are more cautious about who they let into their homes, there are still some people who have that unwavering trust in people. My family friends (a married couple) are some of the nicest people I have ever met, however it kind of scares me when I think about how trusting they are. For example, one time my family friend was out riding his bike when he came across a stranger riding his bike with a small trailer attached to the end. They got to talking (because a trailer attached to a bike is kind of a conversation starter) and he learned that this stranger was a soldier on break from tours in Iraq, and he decided to ride his bike from San Francisco to Cabo in Mexico (my family friends live in San Diego, FYI). My friend was so interested in this guy that he invited this perfect stranger to spend the night in his (very nice) home. The guy turned out to be a great guy, but I still had a hard time believing that he would extend such an invitation to a perfect stranger, especially when you never know what the consequences could be.
Another example of letting a stranger stay in your home is the movie (based on a book and real life) The Blind Side. In the movie, a mother of two lets a homeless teen from her kids’ school live in her house. They eventually become so close that she and her husband adopt him.
Question 1: I would be motivated just by hearing their stories and that hopefully he will hear something about Odysseus and just to learn something about his dad, since he left when he was a baby. It would also be motivational if one of the locations that I would stop at, would actually have a clue as to where Odysseus was and how to help him get home. Another motivation would be just knowing whether or not he is or isn't safe and also whether he wants to come home or not.
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: I would react as though that maybe I am on the right track. I mean why would a goddess be wasting her time if the person she cared about and protected a lot was dead. I think that if i was Telemachus I would be very happy with Athena being there too because then she would make sure that I was safe and that nothing could hurt me. Because seriously who wouldn't want a personal goddess protector? It would be very nice knowing that I can still go out there but if I make a mistake, I will have that safety net to fall back on because he is out there alone at sea with his dad or mom.
Question 3: Today, no i would definitely not invite someone I don't know. However, if I was in Nestor's position and I knew who the person was supposed to be, as he knows that Telemachus is Odysseus's son, then I would let a family friend stay at my house. I don't think that I would necessarily let them take my car or stay for as long as they want but I would treat them to dinner and entertain just at Nestor does with Telemachus and all his other guests. And if that family friend was looking for other family members I would let them stay with me, not for a long time but a couple of days maybe and as long as I get to see progress made at the location. I want to be helpful. Because if in the future I am in the same jam, then I can use it as favor and hope that they would let me stay with them.